The LNER Encyclopedia

The odd stock working that used to run between KX (KC) and Bounds Green (DG), calling as required at various yards in between was indeed "5B98" and we used it primarily to get the cripples back to DG and move replacements and restaurant cars around.

5L30 was the train that used to take vehicles to works. It used to run out of Holloway in the early morning but when that shut it started from Ferme Park CS. It stopped at Doncaster to drop stock off there before going to York. By the mid to late 1970's I was sending coaches to York and vans to Doncaster. Anything for Wolverton or the Southern/Western works went via "the Mills" on the trip. Horwich used to do a lot of 4w vans at that time and they either went via the LM or Doncaster and drop off there.

I only had one real duff job come out of York. A Mk1 TSO (a PB parly set coach) that came back absloutely prestine after a C2. Beautiful paint job and fresh varnish inside with newly painted ceilings. Only problem - they hadn't fitted any seats - backs or squabs! Back it went on 5L30.

Wolverton caused chaos one night when an overhauled Motorail GUV brought KX to a standstill. We were always short of vans at the southern end of the GN Main line and this van, fresh from Wolverton, was quickly put into the motorail rake by Bounds Green and sent to KX. So that night they opened up all the doors in the milk dock but on this one, positioned right in the middle of a set, they couldn't - Wolverton had welded the doors up!!

Of course the delays in shunting this vehicle out & the subsequent delays to the overnights didn't go unnoticed. I was told not to send anymore to that works.

On the subject of the cl.46's - they would have been borrowed by KX Control to do the Cambridges as they were nice out and home workings in between booked workings. I suspect we must have been short of 31's at the time. We did a similar thing with cl.25's on the P'Boro parlys in 1979.

Interesting infomation there Andy regarding the 'odd stock' and the class 46s. Several of the 46s (Peaks) were 'knocking around' at the 'Cross' on Cambridge and maybe Peterborough workings around 1974/75 that i can recall and also a class 46 may have also worked 4S83 the evening freightliner out of Kings Cross Goods yard to Scotland as well on several occasions?. Micky

Odd you should mention GUV doors being welded up, Andy - we almost had the same problem at Crewe one night when we needed a replacement for one of the Inverness Motorail vans in a hurry. An alert shunter pointed out that he had seen some recently ex works vans which had the doors welded up. Consultation with the TOPS clerk revealed that this detail was now shown on TOPS so we were able to identify a suitable one in the South Yd. Obviously the mod wasn't widely publicised!

5L30 - or 3N30 as it was originally - also used to call at Connington Yard, final resting place in the KX division of condemned coaching stock and other stuff not likely to run in traffic again. As there were no staff based here, the guard was expected to do any shunting. At one time it was booked to be worked by a P'boro passenger guard who worked up on 1B16 0715 P'boro - KX (a much monitored train - most boxes had to report its passage) and this could cause difficulties because, as you are only too aware, splitting and dropping buckeyes can be a very dirty business and they objected to having to do it.

That was some place Connington condemned sidings (8-10 roads) trains of BR Mk1 coaches (usually) all waiting for scrapping. Micky G.N.R/L.N.E.R

Here's one for you all. I fell in for the 1:am Newcastle one Friday night/Saturday morning way back in the early summer of 1975 when the booked secondman 'blew it in'. I booked on at 11:pm for a 'spare' turn thinking that i would hang around Kings Cross signing on point till about 3:45am and then be on my way back home to Welwyn Garden City on the 4:am staff train that was the idea anyway. At about 12:40am the Kings Cross running foreman comes up to me and says that the secondman for the 1:am Newcastle has blown it in and did i want a trip to Newcastle?. Cut a long story short i went down to the end of platform no.8 (old platform no.10) and climbs on board a Brush type 4 (class 47) to be greeted by a driver of 'few words' who was known at Kings Cross amongst the other driver's as 'Angry silence' oh well, it's going to be a long quiet night!. Anyway, we departed Kings Cross at 1:am and the trip to Newcastle was largely 'uneventful' arriving at Newcastle sometime after 6:am in broad day light on a Saturday morning to be relieved by Newcastle men i presume?. The usual place for Kings Cross train crews including the guard to stay while 'lodging over' in those days was an establishment called the 'West parade Hotel' situated halfway up a hill from Newcastle central station where room service took on a whole new meaning for an 18 year old secondman like me. I save the return journey for part two. Micky G.N.R/L.N.E.R.

PART TWO: After spending all day on the Saturday knocking around inside the West Parade Hotel at about 6:pm it was time to eat so i joined my driver at the diner table (first time i'd seen him since we arrived at the Hotel about 12hrs earlier) and had a big plate of STEAK & CHIPS!. Anyway, at about 9:pm or just after we left the illustrious West Parade Hotel with our guard and walked back down the hill to Newcastle central station to await what was known as 'the first mails' (there was a second mails as well) which duly arrived sometime before 10:pm. The locomotive on the front of the train was a Deltic which would be our ride back to London so after relieving the crew that had worked her up so far we departed Newcastle and made our way south stopping at the usual stops (York was one) eventually arriving at Doncaster sometime well after midnight. On arriving at Doncaster and coming to a halt the cab door opens and a driver says that we were being diverted via Lincoln and Boston due to the road south of Black Carr Junction (south of Doncaster) was BLOCKED due to engineering work and that he was the pilotman. Oh well my driver says to me to get in the back cab and come back (on the front) when we arrive at Peterborough. We set off from Donny and was turned off the up fast line at Black Carr Junction to go via Lincoln. The thing that remains in my mind about this 'moonlight ride' was that at Sleaford there was 'somersault signals' still in existence mounted on gantrys and straight posts as well as at one or two other locations along that route which was very interesting indeed. Finally we eventually rejoined the ECML at Werrington Junction and shortly thereafter we were arriving at Peterborugh. At Peterborough we dropped the Pilot driver off and i went back up the front for the rest of the return journey up to Kings Cross which turned out to be uneventful finally arriving back in the 'Cross' at about 3:25am on a Sunday morning up no.1 platform with a handful or two of passenger's just under 6hrs after leaving Newcastle on the Saturday night. Micky G.N.R/L.N.E.R. x I was in no.3 link at Kings Cross as a secondman at the time of this trip to Newcastle & return and being in no.3 link that was the 'Doncaster link' the Newcastle 'lodge turns' were done by secondmen in no.1 link or as it was also known as the 'top gang' or 'top link' with your own 'regular driver' so me falling in for a return Newcastle job was the first (and last time) it happened to me.

nice story, Micky.

Interesting route, Micky, Lincoln - Sleaford - Boston and run round. I wonder why you didn't go straight up the Joint line, which was the normal diversionary route for blockages south of Doncaster and the one that I believe some Kings Cross drivers signed.

I can remember some Saturday nights in the early 70's when diversions via Leamside, Askern, the Joint line and the Hertford Loop were undertaken - you had to watch out for EE Type 4's on the sleeper jobs if they came through from Edinburgh, they tended to run out of fuel at Wood Green or thereabouts, particularly if they got delayed

Regards

Andy

Thanks CVR1865 even though that trip to Newcastle and back was 35 years ago i can still remember large chunks of it. I am quite sure i had 'peas' with my steak & chips come to think of it but don't ask me the nos. of the Brush type 4 going down and the Deltic coming back up but i wish i had made a note of which Deltic it was thinking about it. Micky G.N.R/L.N.E.R.

I didn't know where i was to tell you the truth Andy everytime i had a trip down the main line to either Doncaster or Leeds in 1975 it was always on the main line through Grantham. When we were turned off the up fast line at Black Carr Junction i remember going through Lincoln and Sleaford and rejoining the GN main line at Werrington Junction (north of Peterborough) but i was sitting in the back cab which was abit of a drag because i wanted to stay up the front and see where we was going because i had heard that GN somersault signals still existed along that route but when a driver tells his secondman (it was the same for firemen in steam days if your driver told you to do something) to go and sit in the back cab you didn't argue you just done what the driver said. Micky G.N.R./L.N.E.R.

Micky - great stuff but you probably mean via Sleaford and Spalding rather than Boston.

It would have been a bit hard to go from Lincoln to Boston and then to Werrington Jct in 1975. But going all the way up the joint line in 1975 is something I wouldn't mind owning a time machine for!

hqi,
Thanks for coming up with that headcode of '5L30'. Don't know how I could have forgotten that one. Do you recall, as I seem to, some sort of similar up working beong called 5A19 ?

You are probably right Andy to be honest i didn't know where i was?. I had NEVER been over the joint-line before or since and it was 'obviously dark' about 1:30am so i wasn't sure where i was anyway?. We passed through a place that had two maybe three signal boxes close together and there was also groups of somersault signals as well as the usual upper quadrants and sidings as well, i took this place to be Boston for some reason or other so it must have been Sleaford and or Spalding north & south Junctions?. Also you mention the diversions on the Hertford loop usually on a Sunday that was in connection with the resignalling and electrification work on the ECML between Wood Green and Langley Junction during the early/mid 70s plenty of class 47s & 55s mostly. Anyway i have amended my original post thanks Andy. Micky G.N.R/L.N.E.R.

Here's another Kings Cross train crew diagram for 1975. I can't remember the first part of this diagram because on a couple of occasions i can remember travelling down passenger from Kings Cross to Doncaster with my driver but on other occasions i can also remember working a loco-hauled passenger train down to Doncaster from Kings Cross either way i can remember arriving at Doncaster around 10:00-10:30pm and going over into the train crew's messroom on the upside of Doncaster station to await our back working 'the fish' back to Kings Cross Goods yard. After making a 'can of tea' (locoman's tea was usually to fill a white enamel can full of hot boiling water then add the two tea bags and milk at the sametime) in the messroom and hanging around for about 2hrs 'the fish' would arrive outside on the up fast line sometime around 12:30am. The motive power was usually an English Electric type 4 (class 40) and after a 'quick handover' with the Donny train crew and climbing up into the cab and making sure the guard was in the back cab and the road was off ahead it was 'right away' Kings Cross Goods yard about 2hrs away to the south. Usually it was a 'clear road' up the fast line all the way south as far as Holloway south up s/box where 'the fish' was turned in off of the up fast line and onto the up goods line and over the flyover. For those interested in signalling it was about the only time that i can remember seeing Goods & Mineral Junction's up distant signal showing off (the lower right hand arm no.4 of the three top arms on that lattice post bracket signal) on 'every occasion giving the fish a clear road' into the Goods yard passed Goods & Mineral Junction s/box and arriving just beyond Five Arch shunting frame where if i remember we (the driver and myself) would just leave the loco for the driver on duty at Five Arch messroom to dispose of after we had arrived usually around 2:30am. Micky

Here's a Kings Cross train crews diagram from 1974/75. The Kings Cross Goods yard to Temple Mills yard morning goods 9B69 (i think that was it's reporting number?). The train was usually formed by a Brush type 2 (class 31) a brake van leading, various coal/mineral wagons, bogie bolsters, box vans and another brake van bringing up the rear. The whole ensemble would depart the Goods yard/Five Arch shunting frame anytime around 9:30-10:am passing Goods & Mineral Junction s/box onto the down South London goods line and through Copenhagen tunnel onwards towards Holloway south down and climbing up passed Holloway north down s/boxes on the down goods line. On arriving on the down goods line between Finsbury Park No2 and Finsbury Park No3 s/boxes 9B69 would stop unhook and run around it's train (thats was the reason for a brake van at both ends of the train). When the loco had run/round it's train and hooked up it was 'right away' passing Ashburton Grove s/box, Finsbury Park No1 s/box on through Cannonbury tunnel and around the curve onto the London Midland region passing Cannonbury Junction, Western Junction s/box, Eastern Junction s/box, back onto the Eastern region at Victoria Park s/box, Lea Junction, Channelsea Junction, Stratford, Temple Mills East Junction s/box, Manor yard s/box eventually arriving in Temple Mills yard. After detaching the train and going to make the tea and hooking up to the return working it would be time to leave Temple Mills for the return run back to Kings Cross Goods yard. This time the route back would be via Temple Mills East s/box & Junction, High Meads Junction, Lea Junction, Victoria Park s/box, Eastern Junction s/box, Western Junction s/box, Cannonbury Junction and around the curve and through Cannonbury tunnel passing Finsbury Park No1 and Ashburton Grove s/boxes arriving between Finsbury Park No2 and Finsbury Park No3 s/boxes to run around again. After running round it's train it was 'right away' passing Ashburton Grove s/box and up 'the Creep up' towards Holloway north down (the s/box had closed in 1969) Holloway south up s/box up and over the flyover on the up South London goods line and through Copenhagen tunnel passing Goods & Mineral Junction s/box arriving just beyond Five Arch shunting frame in Kings Cross Goods yard around 12:30-12:45hrs. Micky G.N.R/L.N.E.R.